Gilbert Jorgensen’s Weblog

The Israel Dammon incident is especially interesting to Adventist historians because it provides us with two drastically different accounts of the same event — the newspaper account in the March 7, 1845 issue of the Piscataquis Farmer, and Ellen White’s account in Spiritual Gifts, Vol. 2, pp. 40-42, written in 1860, which is 15 years after the fact.

In March 1986 Bruce Weaver, a Andrews University Seminary graduate student, decided to research an article on Ellen White using exclusively historical and public domain documents which were beyond the jurisdiction and control of the White Estate. Bruce’s previous research had discovered that when Ellen White’s fantastic stories and accounts are probed closely, the available evidence often revealed a different story emerging. Prevarication is something that Ellen White appears to have become adept at early in her life.

In another earlier similar incident, Ellen Harmon and her family were disfellowshipped from the Chestnut Street United Methodist Church in Portland, Maine, in September 1843 on the grounds of "breach of discipline in proclaiming the views of William Miller’s time setting." While the Methodist Church wholeheartedly proclaims the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, they were opposed to the continued disruptive behavior of members of the Harmon family in promoting the views of William Miller’s time setting. Their only recourse was to dismiss the Harmon family. Ellen White, in Spiritual Gifts, Vol 2, pp. 21-26, presents a significantly more complementary account, claiming that they were expelled for "rejoicing in the soon coming of Jesus". The full truth of the matter is that the Harmon family was disfellowshipped for believing and teaching, in particular in the Methodist class meetings, the heretical time-setting doctrines of William Miller. Evidence reveals a different story emerging from that provided by Ellen White.

Bruce Weaver explains the setting for the Israel Dammon incident in his article, "Incident in Atkinson: The Arrest and Trial of Israel Dammon".

For more than a century, Seventh-day Adventists have relied unquestioningly on Ellen G. White’s own personal account of her first, post-disappointment travels (first published in 1860) for their understanding of her initial calling and her earliest ministry.

In a personal letter to J.N. Loughborough in 1874, she describes how she spent the winter/spring of 1845 traveling from town to town, primarily in Maine, fighting various forms of fanaticism that preoccupied those Millerites who (following the disappointments of 1843 and 1844) still refused to believe that God had not shared His timetable with them.

However, recently resurrected newspaper accounts of a February 1845 weekend incident in Atkinson, Maine, involving Ellen Harmon, James White, Dorinda Baker, Israel Dammon, and others, call into question the reliability of Ellen White’s autobiographical sketches.

While Mrs. White’s retrospective of her earliest travels emphasizes her fanaticism-fighting role, she also frequently dwells upon startling miracles that she says either attended her ministry or that took place in its presence. Mrs. White’s three-page, published account of the arrest and trial of Israel Dammon is so remarkable that, while reading it over in March of 1986, it occurred to me that some specific contemporary references to it must have survived in the New England newspapers - especially since it involved the police and the courts.

My research was soon richly rewarded. It turned up the earliest existing eye-witness accounts of Ellen Harmon in vision - accounts included as part of sworn courtroom testimony regarding the activities that led to Dammon’s arrest. The most historically significant find was an article in the 7 March 1845 Piscataquis Farmer under the heading "Trial of Elder I. Dammon." This Dover, Maine, weekly newspaper provided a 124-column-inch abridgment of the court reporter’s transcript of Dammon’s February 17 and 18 arraignment and trial.

Ellen Harmon’s presence at the arrest of Dammon, and references to her behavior during the activities that led to his arrest, make this document particularly fascinating to Adventists. Fascination turns to concern, however, when Mrs. White’s account of the affair is compared with that of the witnesses at the trial. But before making those comparisons, it is necessary to establish context and to read the documents in question.  

Ellen White was born November 26, 1827. She, along with her family, was disfellowshipped from the Chestnut Street United Methodist Church in Portland, Maine, in September 1843 when she was age 15. At the time when the Israel Dammon incident occurred she would have just turned 17 years of age.

Next time we will look at this movement that Ellen White was involved with.

Seventh-day Adventists are fond of using Revelation 19:10 to purportedly show that Revelation clearly identifies the Seventh-day Adventist Church as God’s "remnant" end-time church. To do this they claim that Ellen White’s writings are what are referred to there. (See Fundamental Beliefs #18.)

Seventh-day Adventists claim that the "spirit of prophecy" spoken of in the book of Revelation is actually referring to Ellen White. In this way they can then claim that John had to be talking about the Seventh-day Adventist Church because only the Seventh-day Adventist Church has Ellen White.

This reminds me of a statement that Seventh-day Adventist Pastor Kevin Morgan made on the CARM SDA Forum.

Certainly Jesus is the best. But God gives us "much more." And everything that He gives us is the best!

So "Jesus is the best", whatever that means to Pastor Kevin Morgan, ‘but God gives us "much more"?

Hello? Jesus is God! Hebrews 1:1-2 makes it clear that Jesus as God clothed in humanity is God’s ultimate gift. There is nothing better!

God gives us "much more"?

Well, we could list additions to the gospel such as:

1. a further work of grace in the heart
2. an eschatological gift of the Spirit (latter rain)
3. an eschatological sealing of the saints which is something different than the saints have always enjoyed in the gospel

 Thus Adventism

• waits for the final atonement
• waits for the investigative judgment
• waits for the latter rain
• waits for the special sealing to be placed on a community of perfect Adventists.

The most important addition of course is Seventh-day Adventism’s prophet Ellen White — fondly referred to by William Johnsson, Editor of the official church organ, the Adventist Review, as "the Word made flesh."

Let’s see how this works in the case of the book of Revelation. In the spirit of the SDA Clear Word Bible we will create a hypothetical "New Seventh-day Adventist Translation".

Revelation 19:10 (New International Version)
10 At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, "Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

Revelation 19:10 (New Seventh-day Adventist Translation)
10 At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, "Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers who have Ellen White’s writings. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is Ellen White."

This also helps us to better understand what John meant when he wrote Revelation 1:9.

Revelation 1:9 (New International Version)
9 I, John, your brother and companion in the suffering and kingdom and patient endurance that are ours in Jesus, was on the island of Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.

Revelation 1:9 (New Seventh-day Adventist Translation)
9 I, John, your brother and companion in the suffering and kingdom and patient endurance that are ours in Jesus, was on the island of Patmos because of the word of God and the writings of Ellen White.

Do you think I am being unreasonable? Let’s see what Seventh-day Adventists actually teach. This comes straight from their "Amazing Facts "Bible study" series.

In lesson 23, "The Bride of Christ (Six identifying marks of God’s remnant church.)" they reinforce Adventism as God’s only true church. Seventh-day Adventism teaches that all other Christian denominations are "harlots of Babylon". With one hand Adventism seeks acceptance and inclusion as a Christian church. With the other hand Adventism’s message declares the unacceptability and exclusion of all other churches.

[Notice how Seventh-day Adventism promotes itself, by putting down the non-Adventist body of Christ. This is one of the signs of a cult. In my opinion, this narcissistic self-serving approach is designed to lock the gullible public into cultic Adventism rather than to promote Christ and the family of God.]

Here are what Adventism calls "The Remnant’s Six Identifying Marks":

1. The first mark of identification is that the remnant church will arise sometime after 1798 Revelation 12:6-14
   • Only after 1798 can the remnant emerge. Remember that the remnant is not a new church coming on the scene of action in 1798; it is the true church coming out of the wilderness. Its roots go all the way back to the apostles and to Jesus. Its history is not traced through a line of prominence, but through the obscurity of the wilderness.
2. The remnant church will keep the commandments, including the Sabbath. Revelation 12:17
3. Prophecy is the third identification mark of the last days church. Revelation 12:17; 19:10
4. They will preach the three angels’ messages. Revelation 14:6-12
5. It is a Christ-centered, gospel-proclaiming movement. Revelation 14:6
6. It will be a worldwide movement. Revelation 14:6

   Seventh-day Adventism then asks, "Do you know of any Christian church or group that fulfills all 6 of the identifying marks of the Remnant?"

Notice how they use the very carefully worded "Prophecy is the third identification mark of the last days church. Revelation 12:17; 19:10". This is a back-handed way of making sure that Ellen White, Seventh-day Adventism’s "testimony of Jesus" or "Spirit of prophecy", gets included.

Check it out!

BibleStudiesForAdventists.com is now online!

This website is dedicated to Adventists who are looking for biblical insights into the topics discussed each week in the Sabbath School lesson quarterly. We are posting weekly articles which address the current week’s lessons as presented in the Sabbath School Bible Study Guide, including biblical commentary on them.

Colleen Tinker, editor of Proclamation! magazine is the editor of this project. Writers include Christian (non-Adventist) lay persons and pastors, and articles often contain links for further study. Articles addressing each week’s lessons will be posted by the date of each new study’s first lesson.

We hope you will find this material helpful and that you will come to know Jesus and His revelation of Himself in His word in profound new ways.

Connecting with Jesus is a worldwide project sponsored by the Seventh-day Adventist Church. It is a distribution plan to unload 2,000,000 sets of 10 Ellen G. White books on Seventh-day Adventist church members around the world in printed and electronic form. That comes to 20 million books, or roughly 1.3 Ellen G. White books per Seventh-day Adventist. The Connecting With Jesus site states that these books will include another 20 million "study guides", one for each book – presumably to help readers arrive at a "correct" understanding.

The Ellen G White Estate describes this so-called "Connecting With Jesus" project as

"The largest global book distribution project in the history of the Seventh-day Adventist Church has launched an appeal for funds."

No doubt a large portion of the "funds" will end up coming from the wallets of existing Seventh-day Adventist church members who are already expected to pay a Levitical 10% tithe in addition to their contribution to the local church budget. Since the Seventh-day Adventist Church doesn’t employ priests from the Biblical tribe of Levi, a portion of this Levitical 10% tithe goes to pay for surrogate modern day priests called "pastors". The remainder goes to pay for the top-heavy Seventh-day Adventist administrative hierarchy. Assuming that members have funds to "donate" for this massive Ellen G. White book distribution project, these donations should help to keep Seventh-day Adventist denominational printing presses running during lean times.

So what does acquainting people with Ellen White have to do with Connecting With Jesus? Ellen White is obvious not Jesus although the Seventh-day Adventist Church teaches that she was "much more" than a prophet. The Seventh-day Adventist Church also teaches that the Seventh-day Adventist General Conference is God’s highest authority on earth. If the General Conference is the highest authority God has upon the earth, and SDA prophetess Ellen White’s authority is higher than the GC, then what does that make Ellen White?

We’ll let past Seventh-day Adventist General Conference President G. A. Irwin tell us: 

"It is from the standpoint of the light that has come through the Spirit of Prophecy (Mrs. White’s writings) that the question will be considered, believing as we do that the Spirit of Prophecy is the only infallible interpreter of Bible principles, since it is that Christ, through this agency, giving real meaning of his own words." (from the tract The Mark of the Beast, p. 1, G. A. Irwin, General Conference President)

We see here that Seventh-day Adventists fondly refer to Ellen White as the "Spirit of Prophecy" — "the only infallible interpreter of Bible principles." She is like a Roman Catholic pope that lives on even after her death. I suppose that you might say in Adventist parlance that she is "much more than a pope." Saying that in present tense — "is" — is quite a compliment considering that she has been dead for the past 93 years, 5 months, and 8 days. 

"Spirit of Prophecy" is certainly an unusual name to apply to an individual although it is perhaps more subdued than what she was called in her early days with Israel Dammon. Then Ellen White was referred to as "Imitation of Christ". I will leave the reader to study the Piscataquis Farmer newspaper account of the Israel Dammon trial and figure that one out.

Here is how Seventh-day Adventists come up with the name "Spirit of Prophecy". Revelation 19:10 talks about the testimony of Jesus. We Christians consider the testimony of Jesus to be the gospel. Seventh-day Adventists substitute Ellen White for the "spirit of prophecy" described in Revelation 19:10 so they can claim that they alone are God’s "remnant church, and then they, in effect, make Ellen White the gospel that Jesus came to this earth to give us. Adventist Review Editor William Johnsson referred to Ellen White as the "Word made flesh". That is how they can say that they are "Connecting (you) With Jesus" by providing you with Ellen White’s writings — their "gospel"!

Let’s look at what Revelation 19:10 says in various translations.

Revelation 19:10 (King James Version)
10And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Revelation 19:10 (New Living Translation)
10 Then I fell down at his feet to worship him, but he said, “No, don’t worship me. I am a servant of God, just like you and your brothers and sisters[a] who testify about their faith in Jesus. Worship only God. For the essence of prophecy is to give a clear witness for Jesus.”

Revelation 19:10 (Contemporary English Version)
10I knelt at the feet of the angel and began to worship him. But the angel said, "Don’t do that! I am a servant, just like you and everyone else who tells about Jesus. Don’t worship anyone but God. Everyone who tells about Jesus does it by the power of the Spirit."

Revelation 19:10 (Holman Christian Standard Bible)
10 Then I fell at his feet to worship him, but he said to me, "Don’t do that! I am a fellow slave with you and your brothers who have the testimony about Jesus. (A) Worship God, because the testimony about Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

Revelation 19:10 (Wycliffe New Testament)
10 And I felled down before his feet, to worship him. And he said to me, See thou, that thou do not; I am a servant with thee [And I fell down before his feet, for to worship him. And he said to me, See, that thou do not; I am thine even-servant], and of thy brethren, having the witnessing of Jesus; worship thou God. For the witnessing of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Let’s use a simple mathematical formula to demonstrate the relationship. This formula should be within the reach of most of us.

In each translation above we see a mathematical relationship where A = B. Since in each case these two items are equal, we will present it as B = A. This will immediately help you to see what the real relationship is between the two objects within the sentence. The reality is that Adventism blasphemes God’s true "gospel of adoption" with their attempt to set Ellen White’s counterfeit "gospel of probation" in the seat of the genuine gospel!

the spirit of prophecy = the testimony of Jesus KJV

the essence of prophecy = to give a clear witness for Jesus NLT

the power of the Spirit = (how) Everyone tells about Jesus CEV

the spirit of prophecy = the testimony about Jesus HCSB

the spirit of prophecy = the witnessing of Jesus WNT

And so we consistently see that John, the angel and for that matter each of us … have within us the "spirit of prophecy" when we "give a clear witness for Jesus."This verse has absolutely nothing to do with Ellen White. The Seventh-day Adventist Church takes Ellen White and places her in the seat of the gospel of Jesus. That is how they can say that they are "Connecting (you) With Jesus" with a straight face.

Seventh-day Adventism is full of theological substitutions that the casual evangelical Christian will not immediately discern from reading their 28 doctrines more commonly known as the 28 Fundamental Beliefs. The book "Seventh-day Adventists Believe" is the official reference book to these "Fundamental Beliefs." Adventism also replaces the rightful seat of the Holy Spirit as the seal of God with a day that He created, the Old Covenant Sabbath.

We see here that they likewise replace the gospel of Christ with their own false prophet, Ellen White. If that isn’t cultic doctrine, I don’t know what is. That should make us as Christians very, very angry.

The Seventh-day Adventist Church tells us not to worry though — that we are "safe" in the arms of Ellen White.

"All who believe that the Lord has spoken through Sister White, and has given her a message, will be safe from the many delusions that will come in these last days" (Letter 50, 1906; Selected Messages, Vol 3, p.84)

and reminds us:

There are many precious truths contained in the Word of God, but it is "present truth" that the flock needs now. (Early Writings, p. 63)

"In ancient times God spoke to men by the mouth of prophets and apostles. In these days He speaks to them by the testimonies of His Spirit. (Testimonies, Vol 4, p. 147)

These quotations remind me of a statement that Seventh-day Adventist Pastor Kevin Morgan made on the CARM SDA Forum.

Certainly Jesus is the best. But God gives us "much more." And everything that He gives us is the best!

So "Jesus is the best", whatever that means to Pastor Kevin Morgan, ‘but God gives us "much more"?

Hello? Jesus is God! Hebrews 1:1-2 makes it clear that Jesus as God clothed in humanity is God’s ultimate gift. There is nothing better!

Now we know what "Jesus" the Seventh-day Adventist Church is actually "connecting" with. It’s Ellen White in disguise.  

This morning I was looking through books in our church library and ran across two "must have" books — "Scripture Twisting - 20 Ways the Cults Misread the Bible" by James W. Sire (1980), and "Rise of the Cults" by Walter Martin (1981). I intend to get my own copies through Amazon.com Used Books.

Both books are great for better understanding and putting into words how similar Seventh-day Adventism is to Mormonism, the Jehovah’s Witnesses and Armstrong’s Worldwide Church of God. The author of "Rise of the Cults", Walter Martin, also makes mention of certain cultic traits that the JW’s and WCOG got from Adventism. Here are just two examples in the short space of three pages.

"This particular doctrine is drawn from the early writings of Seventh-day Adventists, with whom, as we mentioned, Mr. Armstrong was associated with at one time. It is to the credit of the Adventists that their organization has officially repudiated this position, maintaining that the atonement has alredy been completed." p. 56

"Inherent within the theological structure of the Worldwide Church of God, and stemming from Mr. Armstrong’s perversion of the Biblical doctrine of salvation, is his insistence (also borrowed from the Seventh-day Adventists) that Christians abstain from specific types of food which he claims are "unclean." No devoted follower of the Worldwide Church of God will therefore eat pork, lobster, clams, shrimp, oysers, or any other prohibitions of the Mosaic system. They are, in effect, Orthodox Jews in this particular area of theology!" pp. 57-58

Of course we know that with the introduction of "Questions on Doctrines" Seventh-day Adventism was able to "clear up" the confusion and consign the early writings of the Seventh-day Adventist Church to the "historical trash heap", as GC President Neil Wilson called it. Or was it just an illussion design to mislead the evangelical community that it would rely on for rapid membership growth in the 60’s and 70’s? Did this evasive maneuver successfully keep it under Walter Martin’s "cult watch" radar?

"Although it is true that there was a period, in the life of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, when the denomination took a distinctly anti-Roman Catholic viewpoint, and the term ‘hierarchy’ was used in a pejorative sense to refer to the papal form of church governance, that attitude on the church’s part was nothing more than a manifestation of widespread anti-popery attitude among conservative Protestant denominations in the early part of this century and the latter part of the last, and which has now been consigned to the historical trash heap so far as the SDA Church is concerned." (Neal Wilson, General Conference President, EEOC vs PPPA and GC, Civil Case #74-2025 CBR, 1975)

Walter Martin died and Paul Cardin took his place at the helm as the Executive Director of The Centers for Apologetics Research. Paul is not about to get "burnt" by the Adventist Church’s deception like his predecessor, Walter Martin, did. Paul recently stated in the forward to Dale Ratzlaff’s latest edition of "The Truth About The Adventist Truth",

"The time for a reassessment among evangelicals is long overdue, because for to many inattentive Christians, Adventism represents a profound danger hidden in plan sight.  AsDale Ratzlaff amply demonstrates in the following pages, the movement is founded not on the infallible Word of God, but on such an extraordinary mass of error and calculated deception that it must be seen to be believed. The differences between Adventism and biblical Christianity cannot be ignored, for they strike at the very heart of the gospel. Disciples of Ellen G. White do not merely offer an alternative view of secondary Christian doctrines, as many suppose; instead they encourage millions to place their trust in a false prophet who sets obstacles in the path of anyone who would trust in Christ alone for their salvation and "adds" nothing to the written Word of God except her convoluted and contradictory speculations."

In the 1950’s Seventh-day Adventism put on its evangelical "makeup" and tried to appear Christian to Walter Martin, an expert in the study of cults. Walter Martin later realized that he had been manipulated and lied to. To say that he was unhappy about beling misled would be an understatement. One only has to watch the YouTube videos of the interview with Review and Herald Editor, William Johnsson to see that Walter Martin was not about to be "burnt" a second time by Adventist deception. Walter was a very unhappy "camper". Evangelicals now realize that Seventh-day Adventists use a different glossary of Christian terms and promote a cultic gospel. Paul Carden’s assessment, as stated above, is pretty blunt.

I have been attempting to dialog with Seventh-day Adventist Pastor Kevin Morgan who prides himself as specializing in a "ministry to former Adventists". One would think that he, of all people, would be interested in clearing up doctrinal concerns that led us out of Adventism in the first place.

As a minister who spends considerable time (7,286 posts since joining May 2006 for an average of 235 posts per month ) on CARM’s SDA forum dialoging with former Adventists, we would expect to get solid biblical answers from him to questions concerning core doctrines of Seventh-day Adventism that we had concerns about.

Here are the highlights from one such example of an attempted dialog on the Sabbath — a subject that Seventh-day Adventist Pastor Kevin Morgan considers himself to be an expert on. You can read the full transcript of the dialog originating on CARM’s SDA forum at my DefendingTheGospel.com website. Extraneous "rabbit trails" have been edited out, with careful attention given to maintain the integrity of the Sabbath portion of the dialog. The questions I ask, and the answers Pastor Kevin Morgan responds with, speak for themselves.

I asked Seventh-day Adventist Pastor Kevin Morgan the following question. Keep in mind that I was raised a sixth-generation Seventh-day Adventist, have been an Adventist for 54 years, and as the result of intensive Bible study have only left the Seventh-day Adventist Church for mainstream Christianity two years ago. I attended Seventh-day Adventist schools all of my life and was taught from childhood up that these spiritual leaders could be implicitly trusted to be honest with us and tell us the whole truth. As Adventists we were, after all, God’s exclusive "remnant church" with a special message for all the apostate Christian churchs — harlots of Babylon as Adventism refers to these non-Adventist churches

Here was my question: 

Supposing that the 4th Commandment is treated as a moral law that is still binding:

1. Have you ever known anyone who was disciplined out of a congregation that you attended for Sabbath breaking?
2. Specifically and categorically, what must a person do, or not do, in order to disobey God’s holy Sabbath law in such a way that he will be, as a result of his clear disobedience, disciplined out of the church that you have in mind?

Pastor Kevin Morgan’s response?

Who knows best?
There is an assumption in the question you pose that may be hidden from your view. The "Jewish way" of keeping the Sabbath has been conditioned by centuries of tradition. Ask a Jew how he keeps the Sabbath and he won’t take you back to Exodus. He won’t even take you back to the First Century A.D. At best he can only take you back to Europe of the early 20th Century.

I think I prefer asking the LORD of the Sabbath about what He meant for the Sabbath. Wouldn’t He know best what He intended?

My earnest entreaty for a rational response:

For lack of a better way to word it, may I suggest that that my application of your answer leaves me feeling undernourished. In pastoral terms, I don’t feel like I am being "fed". It sounds great to "ask the Lord". Where do you then look to find the answer? Ellen White, or the Bible? My comprehension is strained to the limit to imagine that Adventists today have in no way been conditioned, as you put it, to observe the Sabbath differently that those of the 1860s — 150 years ago! I have seen the interpretation of Sabbath observance change in my own lifetime.

Kevin, I am beseeching you to be totally honest with me and not play these word games, and go through exercises of rationalization.

We have a problem, me with Adventism, and you with explaining how cultural conditioning absolves one of changing their Sabbath "keeping" against a Bible that doesn’t change. I don’t see it as being productive to assert that the rules for Sabbath "keeping" are based on culture, or time! You simply cannot use that logic without granting me equal right to apply it in the same way!

Kevin, if you were my father, and I trusted you implicitly, would you be totally honest with me, or would you put on your "clerical robe" and give me the "standard lines"?

We are talking here about being totally honest. About being honest enough with ourselves to say, "That explanation is a rationalization rather than the result of facing the problems with meaningful answers".

Kevin, if you were my father which would be more important to you when you look me in the eyes as your son? That you are being totally honest with me about your own concerns and doubts, or that you defend Ellen White at all costs?

I am sensing a dancing around the issues here, and I find that deeply disturbing.

Your friend seeking honest, heart-searching, answers,

Gilbert

Pastor Kevin Morgan’s answer:

Jesus’ example unsurpassed
If you have read how Jesus kept the Sabbath then you have read the best you can read on Sabbath observance.

My followup question to Pastor Kevin Morgan’s response:

Kevin, I come to you totally serious, and you are playing games with me. Do I need to put these questions in a box so the temptation to wander away from them doesn’t get too great?

The implementation of discipline you describe above indicates a shift in thinking, or at least application of thinking.

1.Why do you think that is?
2. What do you see as being the transition mileposts?
3. And by what authority?

Please,

Gilbert Jorgensen

Pastor Kevin Morgan’s response?

Sociological forces
I understood your question to be about what "work" is appropriate on the Sabbath. That is what I answered. I see from your questions that you are wanting to know about appropriate church discipline for Sabbath violation.

Why has there been a shift in application of discipline? Because Seventh-day Adventism has reflected the shift in discipline of society. Your folks could tell you about being spanked at school. Maybe you got spanked at school. Your kids are not likely spanked at school.

I’m not a sociologist. You’ll have to check with someone else for 2 and 3. All I know is leniency is now the American way.

So how does "spanking" relate to "Sabbath discipline"?

No answer. Pastor Kevin has no answers.

These are the best "answers" that Pastor Kevin Morgan can give me?

I come to Pastor Kevin Morgan asking for serious answers to deep theological concerns that I as a departing Adventist have, and he mocks me. Here we see exemplified the true nature of Seventh-day Adventism.

This is tragic and disgusting. And it makes me angry, very angry …

Here we have it. Seventh-day Adventist apologetics at its finest.

Gilbert Jorgensen

Why is it that Adventists have such a hard time convincing former Adventists to return to Adventism?

Do you know of even a single individual who was a well established Adventist for at least 20 years, left Adventism and actively participated in a mainstream Christian denomination for at least 20 years, and then returned to Adventism because they decide that Adventism alone has the "truth"?

Adventism feverishly searches their "cornfield" for some examples that they can produce. Without except, the few examples that they are able to produce were never really immersed in a comprehensive study of God’s Word using sound principles of biblical interpretation. Adventists might argue that these new converts to Adventism weren’t being spiritually nurtured where they previously attended. Fortunately God’s "gospel of adoption" does not require a scholarly theological understanding of biblical hermenutics in order to be "born again". God does not have 28 Fundamental Beliefs that a new Christian must master before they can earn a place in His kingdom.

The point is that Adventism uses deceptive marketing to promote its agenda. While Adventism is busy bashing Mormonism, Mormons, at least to their credit, come right out and tell you that they are promoting a new gospel.

Adventism thrives on "nabbing" Christians who don’t know their Bibles by using deceptive marketing tactics. In fact, it is well known that here in the United States the vast majority of new converts are already Christians of other faiths who are not well grounded on a clear undestanding of God’s "gospel of adoption". For those us us who have been raised in Adventism, we are not so easily fooled.

Adventists who want to defend Adventism to former Adventists need to start by considering that former Adventists have:

• Traditional Adventist training that Adventists try to use on non-Adventists.
• The additional insights that removing the interpretation of Ellen White brings to Scriptures.

If Adventists are to successfully defend Adventism they must have the second vantage point as well as the first.

My heart goes out to those Adventists who regurgitate the same old Ellen White-based apologetics that we were all taught — all the while acting as though we have no clue what Adventism teaches! What part of "former" do they not understand?

We are already familiar with the "standard lines" Adventistm uses, and the rampant proof-texting — using Ecclesiastes 9:5 while ignoring Ecclesiastes 7:1, using Daniel 8:14 while carefully ignoring Daniel 8:13, using Isaiah 66:23 while ignoring Isaiah 66:24. The list of distortions and intentional deceptions goes on and on. Using sound principles of Biblical interpretation is a skill that escapes Adventists. As the result of additional Bible study while still Adventists we discovered that what we had be taught is not what God’s Word teaches.

Somehow or another, Adventists who come here must be willing to at least try and let Scripture interpret itself instead of coming here with the intent of defending Adventism at all costs. Like a drowning man they latch on to some distorted SDA doctrine like the 7th-day Sabbath and think they are going to somehow defend it to experienced Adventists who have studied their way out of Adventism after discovering its cultic nature. They are like lemmings rushing to the sea. We see it happen over and over here.

The problem is more than their trying to proof-text their Ellenisms from the Bible. If they have the same destination in mind, they allow no room for the Holy Spirit to speak to them.

As former Adventists, we have been broken, humiliated in the dust, confronted with the abject horror that the faith we loved and defended actually teaches. God has brought each of us to the point where we no longer take any pride in our own knowledge, church or special prophet. He has stripped it all away. We have been brought to the point of nothingness. Then He replaces that nothingness with His grace, and he says to each of us, "I am adopting you. I love you so much that I died for you."

Adventists don’t deny that theirs is a "gospel of probation". Like the Sabbath-keeping Israelites of Hebrews 4, they just act as if God’s "gospel of adoption" doesn’t exist. The only Sabbath Rest they know is their surrogate 7th-day Sabbath. We didn’t know the difference before God showed us either.

I am convinced that any successful dialog has to start with these two points:

1. Our Adventist friends must recognize the difference between the "gospel of probation" that Adventism teaches, and Christianity’s "gospel of adoption". There is a huge difference. One is works-based and the other grace-based. No one will enter the kingdom of heaven by getting on the wrong train.
2. Adventism’s "gospel of probation" teaches that we can become sinless just as God is. That is a fact that they do not deny. Adventism does not teach a "Savior". Savior from what? Despite the obfuscation inherant in Adventist doctrine, Adventism at its core teaches that Christ is our example of sinlessness to strive for, not our Savior as Christians know Him.

We can become sinless like God. Adventism teaches that, "Nothing short of this will meet the mind of God."

As Adventism teaches:

"Those only who through faith in Christ obey all of God’s commandments will reach the condition of sinlessness in which Adam lived before his transgression" (Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary, vol. 6, p. 1118)

"At this time in the history of the world, we should have but one object in view–to gain eternal life. Every other desire should be subordinate to this. The work of regeneration must go on in every soul until perfection of character is reached; for nothing short of this will meet the mind of God." (Manuscript 119, 1899, p. 1;"Words to Parents," August 21, 1899; 5MR 338.2)

"Christ died to make it possible for you to cease to sin, and sin is the transgression of the law" (Review and Herald, vol. 71, No. 35, p. 1, August 28, 1894.)
"Those only who through faith in Christ obey all of God’s commandments will reach the condition of sinlessness in which Adam lived before his transgression. They testify to their love of Christ by obeying all his precepts" (Manuscript 122, 1901, quoted in the Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary, vol. 6, p. 1118).

"To every one who surrenders fully to God is given the privilege of living without sin, in obedience to the law of heaven. … God requires of us perfect obedience. We are to purify ourselves, even as he is pure. By keeping his commandments, we are to reveal our love for the Supreme Ruler of the universe" (Review and Herald, September 27, 1906, p. 8).

It pains me to say, my brethren, that your sinful neglect to walk in the light has enshrouded you in darkness. You may now be honest in not recognizing and obeying the light; the doubts you have entertained, your neglect to heed the requirements of God, have blinded your perceptions so that darkness is now to you light, and light is darkness. God has bidden you to go forward to perfection. Christianity is a religion of progress. Light from God is full and ample, waiting our demand upon it. Whatever blessings the Lord may give, He has an infinite supply beyond, an inexhaustible store from which we may draw. Skepticism may treat the sacred claims of the gospel with jests, scoffing, and denial. The spirit of worldliness may contaminate the many and control the few; the cause of God may hold its ground only by great exertion and continual sacrifice, yet it will triumph finally. (5T 71.1)

Why did Christ come to this itty-bitty planet and die for us?

"Christ died to make it possible for you to cease to sin"

Adventists don’t need a Savior. What they find in Christ is an example — a totally different gospel — a "gospel of probation".

Christians teach that we are "adopted" sons and daughters of the Heavenly King. There is a huge difference.

We are not insisting that Adventists agree with us, but until they are willing to be honest with themselves and recognize that:

1. Adventism teaches a "gospel of probation" while Christianity teaches a "gospel of adoption"
2. Adventism teaches that Christ died to make it possible for us "to cease to sin", and thereby be our example, rather than our Savior

we have no common ground. All the extraneous red-herrings that they throw out are irrelevant if their gospel isn’t biblical.

• Whether Ellen White was hallucinating or plagiarized others is irrelevant if they teach a false gospel.
• 1844 and an Investigative Judgment is irrelevant if they teach a false gospel.
• Their Great Fake Controversy myth is irrelevant if they teach a false gospel.
• Their "remnant church" notion is irrelevant if they teach a false gospel.
• Their replacing the Holy Spirit as the seal of God with their "keeping" 7th-day Sabbath now being the seal of God is irrelevant if they teach a false gospel.
• Their notion of "soul sleep", "partial annihilation (whatever that means), and an impossible route to a resurrection, is irrelevant if they teach a false gospel.

Adventists must at least be capable of recognizing the gross differences between these two gospels, one genuine and the other Satan’s counterfeit, or there really is no common ground for dialog. Only the Holy Spirit can penetrate the darkness.

Adventists have a whole plethora of techniques for rationalizing their cultic doctrines. I call these, "SDA Techniques For Rationalizing Anything." Today we will take a quick look at one that Adventists frequently use when they are caught by surprise. It is called the "Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy".

The Texas sharpshooter fallacy is a logical fallacy in which information that has no relationship is interpreted or manipulated until it appears to have meaning. The name comes from a story about a Texan who fires several shots at the side of a barn, then paints a target centered on the hits and claims to be a sharpshooter.

Another description I found explains the technique this way:

A Texas redneck decides one morning that he really wants to impress his friends and convince him that he is a truly wonderful shooter. To do this, he grabs his gun, goes out to his barn, and shoots a couple of random holes in the side. He then grabs some paint and draws big bullseye targets around all of the holes that he shot previously. When his friends see the holes in the center of the bullseye targets they assume (erroneously) that their friend really is a great shot.

How does this apply to Adventist apologetics? We see two variations of the Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy in use to defend Adventism.

The first variation starts out by declaring that something significant occurred when really nothing happened. A classic example in Adventism is trying to make something theologically significant out of the date 1844.

The second variation is a last ditch effort to move the target when the Adventist apologist sees that he has an indefensible position. When they see that they have no position left to stand on they move the goal posts and declare victory. It would be almost comical if it wasn’t so sad.

Let’s look at an example of this second variation that I observed this past summer. For those who want to follow the dialog, the relevant portions of the transcript are available at my DefendingTheGospel.com website.

It started out like this. I posed the question to a prominent SDA pastor: 

Question: When was the first recorded event in Scripture where it says that early Christians worshipped God on Sunday?

The good pastor responded back with: 

It’s good shoulder exercise.

There is no first recorded event in Scripture where it says that early Christians worshipped God on Sunday.

There is no first recorded event in Scripture where it says that early Christians worshipped God on the first day of the week.

Show me one verse in which the author points out that early Christians worshipped God on either Sunday or on the first day of the week.

This is the red herring–trying to divert the discussion that you started from the point that Acts 15 tells us everything we need to do and believe as Gentile Christians.

Why not just shrug your shoulders and acknowledge what several in this thread have already acknowledged–that Acts 15 isn’t about listing all Christians are to do or believe?

 Now that is quite an emphatic position to take! The answer that God’s Word gives is found in Matthew 28.

Matthew 28 (King James Version)
1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.
5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.
6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.
7 And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you.
8 And they departed quickly from the sepulchre with fear and great joy; and did run to bring his disciples word.
9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.

 There is certainly not much to question here. For most people the first day of the week would be considered to be Sunday. This text is very clear that these followers of Christ "worshipped" Him. What is the poor SDA apologist to do? The only thing he can do! Move the target. His focus now becomes a Herculean effort to prove that it really makes no difference what the text says. In other words the message doesn’t count. We now have a new target — to see if the complete answer can be encapsulated in a single verse.

Our good SDA pastor responds with:

Excuse me. You did not.

I asked for "a" verse that described the early Christians worshipping on Sunday or on the first day of the week.

You gave me the day that women came to embalm Jesus (listed in one verse) and their grateful worship of Him when He appeared (in another).

If these were early Christians and this is your support for Sunday worship, then you failed to notice that Luke expressly states that these "early Christians" rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment.

If this is your support for Christians to worship on Sunday every week, then open your eyes–you just proved that Christians should rest on the Sabbath every week according to the commandment.

Talk about moving the goal posts! What was the original question?

Question: When was the first recorded event in Scripture where it says that early Christians worshipped God on Sunday?

In this case moving the goal posts to the new requirement that the answer be contained in a single verse didn’t accomplish much. The Wikipedia points out: 

The original manuscripts did not contain the chapter and verse divisions in the numbered form familiar to modern readers.

In other words the orginal manuscripts didn’t have any such thing as verses to begin with!

What was the original question?

Question: When was the first recorded event in Scripture where it says that early Christians worshipped God on Sunday?

Where is there anything in the question about "verses"? Perhaps the requirement that the answer should be found in a single verse should be termed a "red herring". We’ll save that "SDA Technique for Rationalizing Anything" for another one of these articles.

Welcome to the world of Adventist apologetics — where the end justifies the means. Is it any wonder that it is so difficult for Christians to dialog with Adventists?

When all the "theological dust" settles there are only two gospels:

1. The "gospel of adoption"
2. The "gospel of probation"

The "gospel of adoption" teaches exactly that. It IS Good News. It teaches that at the moment we are "adopted" as a "child of God" we become a member of Christ’s True Church and we are accepted just as we are. This is known as being "born again". Baptism follows as an outward sign that we have committed our lives to the Lord. It is not an entry process into membership in some denomination. That is the Christian gospel. That is the gospel that we former Adventists believe in.

The "gospel of probation" teaches exactly that. It teaches that we are all on "probation". It teaches that it is entirely possible that we will never be good enough no matter how hard we try. That is the Adventist "gospel". It is a "gospel of probation". It is NOT "Good News". Not only does Adventism teach a "gospel of probation", but Adventism teaches a "Close of Probation" where there is no more hope for those of us who have not, through our own efforts, achieved a state of sinlessness. To the sinless Adventist, Christ is an example rather than a Savior. To emphasize that point SDA prophetess Ellen White teaches that Christ too was on "probation" and that it is sinless Adventists who "vindicate" God.

Have you ever had a sickening feeling in the pit of your stomach? You learn of a event where someone trusted another person, and then was taken advantage of?

I will let this article speak for itself and the motives of its sponsor, the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

The Adventist Pastor That Preaches On Sundays

Pastor George Shaver loves sharing Jesus with people. As a committed Seventh-day Adventist, he believes and preaches the Three Angels Message, but in a way that people see Jesus in him.

Shaver ministers to four Adventist churches in South Dakota Yankton, Mitchell, Hurley, and Platte. He drives over 200 hundred miles just to go around his district once. But he is never too busy to respond to an opportunity to share Jesus.

In the town of Parker, the local Methodist Church eventually found itself without a minister. Attendance had dwindle to just four members. Instead of searching for a minister of their own denomination, they had noticed Pastor Shaver’s Christlike love for others and his knowledge of Scripture, and thought he could help them grow.

They asked him: “Would you be willing to serve as our pastor?”

“Sure,” he said, “but I do have some limitations.”

“What are they?” they wondered.

“I believe the Bible teaches 28 major lessons. That is what I know, and that is what I can teach you,” he shared, thinking about our fundamental beliefs.

The Methodist members were happy to accept his “limitations,” and off to the church they go each week to learn the Bible from their new pastor, the Adventist minister. Attendance is now ten, and growing.

But it doesn’t end there. The United Church of Christ of Springfield heard about this wonderful Adventist minister, and they also approached him. They were in transition, waiting for their new pastor. They wondered if Pastor Shaver could come and preach to them on Sundays until the new pastor arrived. Of course, he was happy to oblige.

And what are the prospects for the Methodist Church? Shaver shared that he is hoping for the group to grow to 100, and then, they’ll become an Adventist Church!

Pastor Shaver lives by a simple rule of life: to serve Jesus with all his heart. “There is nothing more exciting,” he says, “than to minister to people, and to see them make decisions for Jesus.”

This can happen with you too. With Christ, all things are possible (Phil 4:13).